Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves ...

Mortal Mindy's picture

Rumours have been mounting all week as to the reason why the Travellers & Gypsies left the annual Fair at Seamer on Monday, one day before the actual Fair day began.    Discussion forums on the vacation have been deleted due to the nature of the content.    Some say they left because of the death of a senior member of their community and went to Selby to pay their respects.  The Scarborough News reports " Hundreds of Travellers flocked to the site over the weekend in preperation for Tuesday's fair - but the official site was deserted by then. ..

Claims were that the council had barred the public from the site, causing anger among the community who felt the were deliberately stopping them form make a living and horse trading.   The Council strenuously deny the claims."  One commented "At the gate they ask if you are gypsy and if you're not they refuse to let you in - they wouldn't get away with that if you were Pakistani, so why us? ... even some of the police on site had told us they think the way we have been treated is disgusting"

Within the SN report Andy Skelton, SBC's Director of Service Delivery is quoted as "By working with our partners, North Yorkshire Police, NYCC trading standards and the RSPCA the management of the site went as planned."   Cllr Helen Mallory former Mayor said "They have not been asked to leave, but its their decision to leave ... they may have a charter from hundreds of years ago, but that doesn't mean they will be allowed to break the law."

I recall asking before, 'does the law choose its enforcers or do the enforcers choose the law'.   On this occasion I think the Council have broken quite a few, especially relating to human rights and equality.    Well at least I hope so from my understanding of it.  I am not akin with the Law.  However I do understand a little bit about inciting racial hatred, and equality and fairness.   Also a comment regarding fracking at Crawberry Hill ; "They were charged with preventing staff from carrying out their legal business."  (Senior district crown prosecutor, said: "*** and ***  were originally charged by Humberside Police under section 241 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act 1992. )  The SN reports "coming to the festival with dozens of horses, he typically sells between 20 and 25 of the animals.  This year he sold just two. They have cordoned us off, and won't let the members of the public in."

Now I don't want to get bogged down too much with the law, ahem,  but as a massive fan of the Magna Carter (The 1215 charter required King John to proclaim certain liberties and accept that his will was not arbitary for example by explicitly accepting that no "freeman" (in the sense of non-serf) could be punished except through the law of the land) and the Freedom to Roam Act 2000. see here :

This also includes the right to roam on the Foreshore by the way.  I mention this because over the week-end, as usual, and quite a 'cultural treat' for us locals and other visitors, the Travellers/Gypsies bring several of their horses and carts down to the Foreshore, either to transport their children to the beech to enjoy or to leisurely take in the public amenities on offer.   Most surprising was the 'harrassment' of the Travellers by the local police who had an instant 'RSPCA' team on hand.   I say harrassment by the police loosely because the officers were not provocative - they meekly asked the travellers and their horse and carts to be on there way, and good as gold the Travellers did, though of course slightly unhappy about this.  But, who requested this? Who were the police acting on behalf of?  This brings it back to  the 'working with partners' policy that the Police Complaints Commissioner (PCC) Julia Mulligan is so fond of.

Anyhow thanks to the Scarborough News for their rather disturbing report. (not on line yet) .   I think a full investigation into the whole failure of this years Seamer Fair is due. But , where do we start.   Have the Council Tramped over the Human Rights Act?   Have the police acted as Thieves and stolen the rights of the Travellers?   If  the Gypsies don't come back was that part of the Council's plan? ;-)

Shame the Council and those anti-campaigners forget the heritage of the Gypsies and the massive influence and investment from that community that have built the fairs, amusement parks etc that line our coastline. Shame too that they fail to notice that alongside the Horse and Carts the bright new shiney construction vehicles, and work force gangs, they really do need to wake up !!! 







Mortal Mindy's picture

Seamer Horse Fair 2015

'Ravellers !!'   ffs, I do hope the same attention is being paid to other event holders in the Borough, all things being equal:

"The council is once again employing site managers who will be on site 24 hours a day for the entire time the site is open. They will collect site fees from travellers, ensure the site is managed safely, ensure that site rules are adhered to and that disturbance to local residents is kept to a minimum.

“Like last year, closed circuit television (CCTV) will assist in the monitoring of the site on a round the clock basis.

“Local residents should be reassured that North Yorkshire Police will once again be providing support as appropriate to partner agencies to ensure that the event is managed safely.

“North Yorkshire County Council Trading Standards will visit the site to check traders are acting legally and responsibly and the RSPCA will attend to ensure the welfare of horses and other animals.”

I do hope they afford the same attention to detail at this years Seafest !!!! ...


Captain Qahn's picture

SBC - Enforcement?

Erm, on wot? Beach Bonfires

"Council officials, police and the local fire and rescue service are becoming increasingly concerned for people's safety with a rise in the number of bonfires being lit on Scarborough's beaches.

Under a 2005 council byelaw, fires are not allowed unless Scarborough Borough Council has given its consent."

Miserable gits, as one FB comment states ... "A bonfire surrounded by sand and water.. Dear council, police and fire brigade haven't you anything better to be doing?"  - can't agree more :-)

Erm, now ask why is it posted under here?  Yep, most of the fires on the North Bay are lit on an evening  by groups of migrant workers who have made home here with their families enjoying the beaches and being sociable .... unlike some locals that seem to have forgotten what Scarboro has to offer. .... grrrrr. 

Oh and a few teenagers who should be at home watching Midsummer Murders sipping tea ? 

Mortal Mindy's picture

Travellers get a round in ....

"The convoy arrived on Wednesday, with the club closing both the 17th and 18th holes since then.

Mr Penley-Martin said in previous years passing travellers “had always played ball” when coming through Ganton.

“We even used to give them bin bags so they could tidy up,” he added.

“They’ve always respected us and we have respected them.”

But despite the club contacting the police and council, the travellers are now spending their third day on the course - which can cost upwards of £100 per round to play on.

“I wish my green fees were that cheap,” joked one of the club’s 550 members.

“But of course it’s annoying, people pay a lot for the privilege of playing here and we can’t get a full round in.

“We don’t want to go near to the site as if somebody says the wrong thing, it could kick off.”

The Seamer site is being prepared today ahead of it opening at 5am tomorrow morning for the travellers, ahead of Tuesday’s fair.

Golf experts have dubbed Ganton’s course a “shrine” for the sport, and legend Harry Vardon was the club’s pro when he won the first three of his six Open Championships at the start of the 20th century.

The Scarborough News was not given permission to enter the private course to speak to the travellers."

tee hee? 

Captain Qahn's picture

SN: SBC - Courses for Horses

Interesting comments.

BillyJoJo - 24/04/16

"yep I agree they is a minority of Gypsies, Roma and travellers (they is a difference betewen all three) that do cause problems within the village, but on a whole the most are repectable and abide by the rules and laws. they was an earlier coment made and asked why they dont use appleby instead, They do, they use appleby and Scarborough is the next fair after appleby. however that is not my point. the amount of moaning and complaining about anyone or anything, as anyone ever thought that, if it wern't for the seamer horse fair that, that field would not exsist. Now that said let us look at that field, the horse fair lasts a week or so, they is no greivences from the users to pay rent for that period. the rest of the year the field remains empty cept for sheep, the field as been grounded with anti bogging flags that makes the whole field a hard standing. would that not be a fantastic place for the village of seamer to use as a gold mine for other shows such as car rallies of variety of classes, car boot sales, dog shows, the list is endless, whilst sitting bored in your homes wondering on how to ruin the Gypsy, Roma, Travellers cultures, why not sit and think how best to make the most of the field and Thank the fair goers for battling and fighting for a field. have any of you people actually ever been to country peoples (House peoples) shows and events after they have finished emm I have and ive balked at some of the waste left by them. it goes back to the saying, they is good and bad in all cultures, lets once and for all accept that and start thinking of the positives.
I love normal life it's so entertaining, watching bike theives and twokers riding round and running people over, I love watching the living statues on the street corners selling their drugs, how entertatining it is to enjoy hearing the conversations of what was seen on jeremy kyle that morning, Im confused as to what is NORMAL. when the council say.. 'not permanant this is what they are meaning. you may have a "permanant" Job, you still can be laid off or sacked, The council I think are meaning that by permanant is this,eg: this year the horse fair is held in farmer giles field, next year it's held in farmer Jones field etc etc, by this kind of arrangement it would be difficult to predict any problems that may arise, difficult to police, by making the field permanant it helps to know the nicks and cracks as to what may cause problems. the word permanant does not mean what it simply says, it also leaves council in control as to what and what cannot happen on the land, as seen last year when they would not allow people to set up their stalls and sell their wares. and made it that the people of seamer and surrounding areas were not allowed to go and buy from them. anyone with any views on what we see and hear, go to appleby and speak the locals there and get there opinions. no insults to anyone in this coment was intended, just examples for easy explanantions. Thank You."


Captain Qahn's picture

DJB :-)) The Wares of Seamer

"...Clearly, however, this was no more than a truce, not a peace treaty. In 1598, when Scarborough was visited by a “dangerous infection whereby great mortalitie did ensue”, Edward Gate was permitted to reopen his market for as long as Scarborough’s were shut down by the plague. But the following year, when Scarborough was declared to be free of the disease, Gate refused to close his Seamer market. Commercial hostilities were resumed...."

"Seamer, she wrote, was a natural point of exchange for goods coming from Blackamoor (North York Moors), mainly “ploughs, carts, wains and such necessaries for husbandry” and those, mostly cereals, from Yorkswold (Yorkshire Wolds). In contrast, she continued, the route from inland to Scarborough was often inaccessible, “as almost no horse with burden in winter can pass without danger”. [Here she was referring to the Burtondale road which was frequently flooded by Scarborough Mere]....

"... The stakes had always been stacked against Seamer.... Moreover, the Queen and her ministers dare not discount the strategic value of Scarborough’s harbour and the castle, the borough’s annual rent to the Crown of £91, and the 4,000 fish the royal court received at half the market price...."


" ... It's hard to imagine the changes that have taken place in Forge Valley since the Age of Dinosaurs! "

SNooooze ...