Whitby Town Council Meeting

Mortal Mindy's picture

Well well well where do we begin ... who needs York Potash to build a mine?  ... Some members of Whitby Town Council believe the Mine could be built by employing 31 people and they should tunnel from the Middlesborough end through to Doves Nest and shove the spoil back as they go along - bucket and spade anyone?   Members of the Town Council clearly defensive of their tourism business that have built up over the last twenty years ... thriving are they? Am surprised the traffic can take the stress all those racing high spending visitors in curiosity shops, tea shops and chip shops.   Not only are certain members of Whitby Town Council mining experts they are traffic management experts to boot.

Anyhow, sin of sins I left my scribble book behind so good luck to anyone that can decifer that ...

Meanwhile the important bits

1.  The proposal to support the York Potash Application was passed FIVE votes to FOUR

2.  A new motion proposed by Cllr Robinson to continue discussions with York Potash before the application decision date was passed SEVEN to TWO

3.  A new motion by Cllr Murphy to propose the York Potash Application be called in to the Secretary of State to decide was defeated by FIVE votes to FIVE with the Chair making the deciding vote.

These proposals and votes came after some much passionate and mixed input from the Public who were allowed to voice their opinions.

(BTW I am publishing this as I write so be warned ...  its all in me head ... and no I'm not making it up .... wot a hoot!)

Firstly on behalf of Whitby Area District Trust - the Charity WADT,  an eloquent speech was given by the author of 'the report (6th Feb)' regarding the traffic management and confusion over the figures presented by Royal Haskings and York Potash.  They had the Whitby Area's interests at heart and whilst not wanting to object to the York Potash project, especially if creating employment opportunities they felt that Whitby, the Town of Whitby and the impacts on Tourism by traffic had not been explained or mitigated satisfactorily.

To support this Tom Chadwick read his notes on his view of the traffic congestion issue, quoting figures from his (notes) and also reiterating that 255 jobs would be lost to tourism as a result of the mine. 

A rather 'young man' an apprentice engineer stood to speak about the opportunities the project would create for young people, Whitby's young people were desperate for this project to happen, to provide local well paid employment (outside of the tourism) and the boost to the younger generation of job prospects and training was what Whitby needed.   He was quite disappointed that the 'old teacher' speaker was not supporting this project.   I was quite disappointed when he stood up to offer me his seat but indeed a very charming young man indeed. (later congratulated for his input by other members of the public)

Another gentleman stood - a former miner, shaft sinker and local who had spent most of his life working away from home claimed that "No one had any right to deny anyone the chance of well paid employment" and referred to witnessing the dangers that miners faced and the devastating collapse of the mining industry.  Declaring that the York Potash Mine would be modern, safe and necessary to continue 'mining' as an industry in the UK. 

Yet another gentleman stood and made an impassioned plea in favour of the Potash mine and it almost got rather excrutiatingly exciting when he started waving his stick at Tom Chadwick .... no seriously he made some very valuable points about how Whitby needed the jobs and how dare people deny the Town this opportunity (in his own passionate rather coloquial words to follow ... )

Next a very impassioned plea from a young woman who supported the York Potash project but despite asking about (several bodies) claimed there were no guarantees for Whitby if it all went wrong - only Scarborough Borough Council would receive any benefits and not Whitby Town - her issue was that Whitby needed to be protected if things went wrong not Scarborough, as Whitby would be impacted the most.  She urged York Potash to make a deal with Whitby Town Council and not Scarborough Borough Council whom she felt were very neglectful of Whitby.

A few more people stood and voiced their opinion - quite a brave thing to do btw - mostly in support of the York Potash Project.

Then the Chair took Standing Orders - that means closed to the Public to let the Councillors speak.

First up was Councillor Robinson who claimed that the Application should be called in, it was too complex, the traffic management was unclear, the threat to tourism was too great and that Whitby had been misled by York Potash and Whitby should not be held to the reports produced by York Potash who he claimed  were bullies. (at which point I started heckling 'rubbish' & 'why don't you read the application' and was told to shut up.  However the more rubbish he spurted the more 'rubbish' kept falling out ... oops.

Then Councillor Havelock and Councillor Murphy attempted to back up Robinsons 'beliefs' along with some other Cllr who was more interested in preserving his tourism business than understanding the application or bothering to comprehend its contents.   They fessed up to having received the WADT report published 6th Feb from external sources and felt better informed than other councillors who had not received that report.  (privilege or disadvantage?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHetRTOD1Q

At this point Murphy and Robinson added the two new motions.

It should be noted that Simon Parkes had vacated the room at the start of the York Potash discussion (earlier) because of a possible pecuniary interest, and he had no say in any the proceedings or debate. 

Oh yeah almost forget (ha ha) during the public session Tom Chadwick stated he had written to the Secretary of State to have the application called in and that not only he, but the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust,  the National Trust, CNP & CPRE had all done the same.  He seemed quite happy about confirming this as 'fact'.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNBjMRvOB5M -

He later said that York Potash didn't have the money to pursue a Public Inquiry.   I did ask him about his reasoning behind this, suggesting that this would result in Boulby's evidence being called into question and the possibly downfall and backruptcy of the North York Moors National Park Authority.

He and Havelock suggested I didn't understand.   At which point I suggested that it was they that did not understand ...

Can't remember what I said during the Public session - erm ; no mention of mitigation measures, extra train services, Section 106, the Bonds, the Boulby application due in 2022 and disagreeing with Tom Chadwicks attititue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1tv_gCOUA

Someone elses rather weird version nciked off LSE (Northof)

"Well it was a close run thing & at full time the recommendation was a 5 all draw. The Mayor saved the day with a castng vote which supported the Motion & the recommendation to support the Mine was upheld with a proviso that the temporary village project was authorised.

The Motion to call in the project to the Minister was also defeated by a casting vote.

Dr Forgen talked to the WADT report which had not been circulated to Whitby councillors by the clerk but had been leaked to some of them via SBC (not true)  He expressed concern that the four authorities involved in the planning process had acted individually & not communicated with each othe regarding the traffic management [ & day visitor economy - Whitby], He confirmed that he had consulted all of them and called for WTC to write to NYMPA requesting that all four be invited to meet together to discuss the traffic issues before the result of the planning application. This became the third Motion of the meeting & was supported by WTC on a vote of 7 to 1.

The former Mayor although in favour of the Mine said that he believed that YPL could do better & that Tourism had supported the Town for the previous 20 years and should not be dismissed by some vocal supporters of the project.

The Location of Labour for the Operation of the Mine report dated 9th July 2014 (Drawing No:PB1110-P2-036) was also referred to by a couple of the speakers.

A well attended meeting with reasonable public participation."

And there was I ruefully thinking I had said too much, oh well for anyone that believes  'a teacher is always the cleverest person in the class' ... don't be a teacher.

Meanwhile other than a sore head - the NYMNPA are being rather proactive and establishing their very own Charitable Trust :-)) http://www.northyorkmoors.org.uk/about-us/meetings-and-agendas/authority...

Never, ever again ;-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnwREox5JrU

  

 

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Mortal Mindy's picture

WTC - Sleights Lad spells it out

As a 'pirate'  thought we'd nick this off LSE too :-))

"For the second time in only a few months, Whitby Town Council gives their backing to the York Potash Project.

Economic Impact Report
---------------------------------

Read pages 9 & 10 of the following Economic Report document that was submitted as part of the planning application.

THE KEY POINTS BEING;

1. EVEN IF THE WORST CASE SCENARIO WERE TO
OCCUR, THE LOSSES WOULD BE SMALL COMPARED TO THE
BENEFITS OF THE YPL SCHEME – AROUND 150 JOBS,
COMPARED TO THE 750 WELL-PAID, FULL-TIME JOBS WITHIN
THE PARK AT THE MINE ITSELF. THE LOSS OF TOURISM
ACTIVITY AT £5.2M DURING OPERATION IS INSIGNIFICANT
IN COMPARISON TO THE £1.2BN OF ANNUAL TURNOVER
GENERATED BY THE PROJECT.

2. MEASURES OF TOURISM EMPLOYMENT IN THE
NATIONAL PARK DURING THE PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION OF
THE UPGRADED FYLINGDALES FACILITY SHOW THAT THERE
WAS NO DECLINE OVER THAT PERIOD.

Gravity Model for Traffic Modelling
----------------------------------------------

Gravity models are used for traffic monitoring and take in a bunch of parameters to try and best fit. It is just a model – read about Distance Decay profiles within Gravity Models for more information.

The 750 people within 1 hours drive of Dove's Nest within the model can be statistically relied upon within the gravity model with a far greater degree of confidence that 31 in Whitby and the Esk Valley for Traffic Modelling purposes.

For example, it would be 100% accurate to say that all traffic attributable to the mine staff will ALL be on living planet earth. Probably 100% accurate that they will also ALL be living in the UK as no-one will commute daily from another country. Possibly 100% accurate to say they will ALL live within 2 hours commute etc. You see the point.

The 750 people within 1 hour drive of Dove's Nest within the model can be statistically relied upon within the gravity model with a far greater degree of confidence that 31 in Whitby and the Esk Valley for Traffic Modelling purposes.

THE KEY POINT BEING;

"… WHILST THIS IS A RECOGNISED METHODOLOGY FOR ACCESSING TRAFFIC IMPACTS, IT BY NO MEANS REFLECTS OUR APPROACH TO MAXIMISING LOCAL EMPLOYMENT OR INDEED THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT WILL EXIST"

Furthermore, these figures do not of course include all the INDIRECT jobs that will be created locally as a result of supply chain and service industries etc.

The fact is that for postcodes YO11/12, there will be many more net jobs created that lost as a result of any (if none whatsoever) adverse impacts on tourism.

Hence the reason why Whitby Council have TWICE backed York Potash along with Scarborough Council AND ALL Parishes. Did I also mention the recent letters of support from LOCAL residents showing 95% support? Enough said."

Yep, Enough said.  Have a nice day.  If you want this post removing you know what to do :-)

Mortal Mindy's picture

WTC Potash Meeting reported by Whitby Gazette

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/local/town-council-to-back-potash-pl... "Whitby Town Council agreed to support the building of a potash mine following a heated debate about the project this week

There were exchanges between councillors and members of the public at Tuesday’s extra-ordinary meeting - called to discuss the re-submission of York Potash’s plans to construct a multi-million pound mine on the outskirts of Whitby.

Most of the audience were in favour of the mine going ahead and appealed to councillors to cut the red tape and let York Potash get on with it.

One man said: “It is unbelievable the amount of hysteria about this mine. The National Park is more than capable of looking at this application - they have the people that know what they are talking about.

“We don’t need to keep dragging it out, otherwise this wonderful mine will be gone.”

Geoff Wilson added: “Stuff the National Park and stuff the tourism authorities. People who own shops and businesses in town want people in them and the mine will provide that.

“If it brings just 100 jobs, it’s a hundred more than we have now.”

Cllr Derek Robinson said the mine would destroy the tourism industry “at a stroke” and also warned “somebody will die going across to Middlesbrough in an ambulance with construction vehicles every two minutes.”

Three motions were put to the vote but the council opted to support the mine if mitigations were put in place but also wanted further meetings."

Mortal Mindy's picture

Traffic Management

Not sure where it fits in with the Potash traffic management plan, but hey ho ...  I for one am sick to death of hearing of how detrimental slowing the traffic down between Middlesborough, Whitby and Scarborough is a 'bad' thing.   Not only is the A171 one of the highest fatality roads for Motorcyclists but for the number of 'boy racers' who not only risk their own lives, but those of their passengers traversing the A171 is indeed shocking.

So in my humbly bumbly if the  'Mine' slows down the traffic (as if it could get any slower at peak times) then that has to be a real benefit. 

It is quite absurd Cllr Robinson's statement that someone might die when in an ambulance, wot about those ambulance and police traffic officers that have to clear up the usual mess year on year !!!

The traffic Management of the A171 is not the responsibility of York Potash but the responsibility of NYCC.

Once again the York Potash development has put under the spot light a serious issue that needs to be quantified by the qualified people. 

As said at the meeting Whitby and Scarborough are destination Towns, who decides who should or should not be allowed to use public roads ... heading into dangerous territory  ...

Personally I would welcome a much needed 24 hr traffic management plan for the A171, and if that means slowing it down with no overtaking, for four years, whilst the 'professionals' sort it out, then sobeit.

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/local/a171-road-is-prolific-for-moto...

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/11720

In short, the Traffic Management issue is of much wider context and should, imo, be external to the PA. 

Rant over. :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeb4N9V74ZI

almost: http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2014-10-22/police-investigate-19...

Just one more thing (don't necessarily agree with it)  - another indirect benefit ? Whitby gets investment ... now why is that? !!!

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/local/branson-brand-taking-on-local-...